Comments on: it’s going to be a long political season http://barryshapiro.wordpress.com/2008/07/03/its-going-to-be-a-long-political-season/ Well, now you know... Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:22:42 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: barryshapiro http://barryshapiro.wordpress.com/2008/07/03/its-going-to-be-a-long-political-season/#comment-71 barryshapiro Sun, 06 Jul 2008 17:18:59 +0000 http://barryshapiro.wordpress.com/?p=83#comment-71 Paul I am not sure what factual inaccuracies you refer to in my post though if you get the inclination you are very welcome to point them out. We are all entitled to our own opinion and I believe that I have stated mine and that my facts are straight. That said, I welcome debate and should you be able to point out a fact that I have misrepresented I will be happy to post it with a retraction. As to the issue of the Canadian political scene I was aware of the referendums and the seperatist movement but I think it is a slightly different issue. I will admit to this: I have spent a good deal of time in Vancouver and Montreal but not Quebec so I may be out of touch with any lingering feelings of dissention in that provence. I have worked closely over the last few years with individuals from all over Canada (to be clear, most are from the Alberta area) and the feeling I get is that the issue of seperationis a thing of the past. That may not be the case and if it isn't I stand corrected. However, the example of a seperatist movement that has been going on for decades in one particular provence to my mind is a different matter from the reletively recent hot button issue of illegal immigration in this country. Despite the French Canadian past and possibly present displeasure with the government as wish for some form of autonomy, I believe that as a whole, the Canadians are generally united as a nation and seem to work together quite successfully. I only speak from my own experience here. I am sure there are exceptions and there are dissenters but I am speaking in general. We have had similar issues in this country but when push comes to shove we usually see ourselves as one nation. Lamm's speech smacks of racism, which in my mind makes it a completely different ball of wax. It also doesn't propose a practical solution to illegal immigration, just a mean and irrational rant against anyone who doesn't reflect his social-cultural ideal. That, to me, is a very dangerous position. Maybe I am missing something in that speech and if so, feel free to point it out - but I don't think so. Paul
I am not sure what factual inaccuracies you refer to in my post though if you get the inclination you are very welcome to point them out. We are all entitled to our own opinion and I believe that I have stated mine and that my facts are straight. That said, I welcome debate and should you be able to point out a fact that I have misrepresented I will be happy to post it with a retraction.
As to the issue of the Canadian political scene I was aware of the referendums and the seperatist movement but I think it is a slightly different issue. I will admit to this: I have spent a good deal of time in Vancouver and Montreal but not Quebec so I may be out of touch with any lingering feelings of dissention in that provence. I have worked closely over the last few years with individuals from all over Canada (to be clear, most are from the Alberta area) and the feeling I get is that the issue of seperationis a thing of the past. That may not be the case and if it isn’t I stand corrected.
However, the example of a seperatist movement that has been going on for decades in one particular provence to my mind is a different matter from the reletively recent hot button issue of illegal immigration in this country. Despite the French Canadian past and possibly present displeasure with the government as wish for some form of autonomy, I believe that as a whole, the Canadians are generally united as a nation and seem to work together quite successfully. I only speak from my own experience here. I am sure there are exceptions and there are dissenters but I am speaking in general.
We have had similar issues in this country but when push comes to shove we usually see ourselves as one nation. Lamm’s speech smacks of racism, which in my mind makes it a completely different ball of wax. It also doesn’t propose a practical solution to illegal immigration, just a mean and irrational rant against anyone who doesn’t reflect his social-cultural ideal. That, to me, is a very dangerous position. Maybe I am missing something in that speech and if so, feel free to point it out – but I don’t think so.

]]> By: Paul Carter http://barryshapiro.wordpress.com/2008/07/03/its-going-to-be-a-long-political-season/#comment-70 Paul Carter Sat, 05 Jul 2008 13:25:44 +0000 http://barryshapiro.wordpress.com/?p=83#comment-70 I have neither the time nor the inclination to rebut the many factual inaccuracies and pure opinion offered as fact in your response to former Governor Lamm’s speech. Everyone gets to have their own opinions, but they don’t get to have their own facts. One of your comments, however, cries out for a response. You state, "I find it ironic that Lamm uses Canada as an example of how multiculturalism doesn’t work. Has that guy been to Canada? Maybe he has since he gave that speech in 2003, but possibly not before." Maybe you were still a child during the 1980-90-time period, or maybe you consider anything that happened in Canada before 2003 as irrelevant to the point Governor Lamm was making. I would point out to you that during the 1980s and 1990s the Canadian province of Quebec, the second largest of Canada’s provinces in both population and land area, put two referenda before its voters, 1980 and 1995, asking them if Quebec should separate from Canada and form an independent sovereign nation state. The 1995 referendum fell just 50,000 votes short of passing. Quebec, as I’m sure you know is predominately French in both language and culture. It has always been that way since before Canada became a nation stateThese facts are according to Wikipedia, which points out that even today, “nationalism plays a large role in the politics of the province, with all three major provincial political parties seeking greater autonomy and recognition of the Quebec people as a nation. IS THIS YOUR IDEA OF HOW MULTICULTURALISM SHOULD PROCEED IN THE US? You state, “The Canadians get along just fine and they have universal health care to boot! If this is your idea of getting along just fine, I don’t want any part of it for the US! Paul I have neither the time nor the inclination to rebut the many factual inaccuracies and pure opinion offered as fact in your response to former Governor Lamm’s speech. Everyone gets to have their own opinions, but they don’t get to have their own facts. One of your comments, however, cries out for a response.

You state, “I find it ironic that Lamm uses Canada as an example of how multiculturalism doesn’t work. Has that guy been to Canada? Maybe he has since he gave that speech in 2003, but possibly not before.” Maybe you were still a child during the 1980-90-time period, or maybe you consider anything that happened in Canada before 2003 as irrelevant to the point Governor Lamm was making.

I would point out to you that during the 1980s and 1990s the Canadian province of Quebec, the second largest of Canada’s provinces in both population and land area, put two referenda before its voters, 1980 and 1995, asking them if Quebec should separate from Canada and form an independent sovereign nation state. The 1995 referendum fell just 50,000 votes short of passing. Quebec, as I’m sure you know is predominately French in both language and culture. It has always been that way since before Canada became a nation stateThese facts are according to Wikipedia, which points out that even today, “nationalism plays a large role in the politics of the province, with all three major provincial political parties seeking greater autonomy and recognition of the Quebec people as a nation. IS THIS YOUR IDEA OF HOW MULTICULTURALISM SHOULD PROCEED IN THE US? You state, “The Canadians get along just fine and they have universal health care to boot! If this is your idea of getting along just fine, I don’t want any part of it for the US!

Paul

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